Wizard NYCC '08 Kirkman Q&A

When it reached its first major turning point (the murder of its universe's major heroes at the hands of their leader Omni-Man), Robert Kirkman and Cory Walker's Invincible proved that it had some gruesome teeth beneath its teen hero exterior, and its creators proved that they could do "serious" superheroes with the best of the big creators at DC and Marvel.

This year, the team will bring those sensibilities to full light with Destroyer MAX, a five-issue miniseries under Marvel's MAX imprint which features content for mature readers. Destroyer, an often-overlooked character from Marvel's Golden Age co-created by Stan Lee, isn't quite the name that jumps to mind when one thinks "mature readers superhero." Luckily, Kirkman was on hand to tell Wizard Universe why a 90-something Destroyer is the perfect fit for some violent content, what it's like to work with Walker again full time and why this series will be different than any other he's ever done.

So Robert, what was the reason for reteaming you and Cory, not just at Marvel and not just on a Marvel superhero comic, but on a Marvel mature readers superhero comic?

Well, I guess it all started with [Marvel editor] Aubrey Sitterson. He's got some emotional problems, and so he was wanting us to do something really violent and graphic to appease that, so he requested we do something on edge like Destroyer.

What is the pitch behind this specific series? Sometimes we get a book launched from Marvel that's 'Oh, here's a much beloved character who carried a book in the '70's,' but Destroyer is a bit less recognizable to say the least.
I have no clue. [Laughs] No. The pitch is the end of the life of a superhero. And it's him trying to scramble around and pick up the pieces of the mess he's made of his life and get his house in order in time for him to die. That's the main story. And I guess the character could be considered a bit obscure, but I think he's technically the first character that Stan Lee ever created. So that's kind of cool. He definitely has some of his fans. I know Dan Slott is a huge fan of the character, and there are people who definitely remember the guy and are excited to see he's coming back. But what we're doing is very much a new take on the guy and not very dependent on people knowing anything about the character. We're really just digging the guy up and trying to do something cool with him.

Do you just take the general concept and powers without researching a lot of the stories of his past?
Actually, I'm kind of operating on the—and this is very odd to explain—but I'm operating on the assumption that there's a 700-issue run of this book that doesn't really exist, and so I'm writing #701 to #705. And I'm just assuming that the comics that happened in the '40s actually existed and continued from that point until now. And so you'd have your retcons and continuity fixes and little bits and changes here and there and different side characters added in along the way. I'm just assuming that all that stuff took place and writing the last five issues of this imaginary series. That's where I'm taking it, and because of that I'm excited that we'll have a series that in four or five issues you'll be getting little pieces of this guy's vast history and all the different things that have gone on and all the different things that have happened. It's not until the end of issue #5 that you'll have a full understanding of everything that's been happening. I think it'll be kind of neat.

So are you going to be throwing in little fake text elements like "*See issue #538 for So-and-so's last battle"?
No. I'm trying to stay away from anything that could be viewed as retro in this series or lighthearted and fun. I have a bit of a reputation for doing lighthearted and fun, semi-retro comics. Since this is a MAX book, I really wanted to do something—I don't know if it's necessarily overly dark, but it's something that is very mature and modern. Something like what we do in The Walking Dead. There's nothing retro about that, but I just haven't done anything like that at Marvel yet. We're trying to do something new here. So there won't be any captions or anything, as much as I really want to. I'm fighting my own instincts on that kind of stuff. I want to do at least one book that is fairly serious.

What can you tell me about the rest of the Destroyer cast? Since there's an entire unseen history there, I'm assuming he's accumulated a few other characters to be around at the end.
Well, he's got a lot of villains out there. The main thrust of the series is him realizing that his heart's about to give out and deciding to hunt down and kill all of his villains so they can't cause any trouble after he's dead. And so we'll get to see a lot of his villains that he's fought over the years. The main supporting cast is his wife Harriet and his daughter whose name escapes me at this point. It's a new series for me, so I haven't memorized everybody's name yet. [Laughs] But it's basically his family. He's got a daughter who's married and they have a kid, and so he's got a grandchild. He's a fairly old person at this point, and so his family is the main supporting cast. His brother makes an appearance, and he's got quite a long list of arch enemies to deal with. They'll all be showing up in this book.

I know some people think that Cory just did the initial issues of Invincible, but he's remained quite involved there in terms of character designs and other elements. Was getting back on a monthly much of a change for how you guys work and interact?
Not really. Cory and I have been working together non-stop since before we did Invincible. I know he did some things here or there for DC and some things at Marvel I wasn't involved with, but we did two issues of Marvel Team-Up together and two issues of Ant-Man. And still from time to time, Ryan [Ottley] and I will get him to do character designs on Invincible. He's very much involved with that book even to this day. So that's cool. But this is the first thing we've done that's a long term, real project. The other stuff he's done with me was just fill-in stuff, so I'm pretty excited to work with him again and get to have another Kirkman/Walker trade paperback eventually. It's pretty exciting.

Because this is a MAX book, has there been anything he's been specifically requesting in terms of violence and over-the-topness that he wants to draw in Destroyer?
He was asking for a lot of penises early on, but I believe he was told that we couldn't cross that line. [Laughs] No. As far as the violence goes, he's not requesting anything specific. That's all coming from me because I am a big fan of graphic violence. He hasn't refused to draw anything yet, and we've done some pretty heavy stuff already. So that should be pretty cool.

This is one of those tricky situations where you're relaunching a franchise and a character to hopefully catch on with the readers, but you're also sending him on a storyline where he's sure he's going to die. At this point, what's your non-spoilery reaction to the idea that the series is a hit and warrants a sequel?

I think if this book does well, we wouldn't have any trouble at all doing a sequel. He may or may not die in the last issue—I'm not going to come out and say it—but despite the premise of the book being that he's dying, who knows how long he's going to last? He's, I'm sure, lived through a lot of things already being that he's over 80 years old. He's probably got some life left in him. But if this ends up being fairly successful, I'd love to come back and do some more with the guy...even if he's dead. We do have that 700-issue gap that we could fill in at any point.

Newsarama WWC '08 Kirkman interview

Newsarama caught up with Robert Kirkman at Wizard World Chicago for this quick chat in the middle of the con floor and took the opportunity to ask the writer why his Destroyer Max series didn't show up in September solicitations for Marvel as expected. "I think it was premature to say it was going to be showing up in September when they announced it. I hadn't really been planning on it being September. That may have been a mistake. But as far as I know right now, it's December," he said of the series, which is being drawn by Kirkman's Invincible collaborator, Cory Walker. "Cory is nearing completion of the first issue. I'm in Chicago, so I don't know, but he's supposed to have a bunch of pages done this weekend. We'll be done with issue #1 next week, and we'll be moving on from there for a December launch."

The series allows Kirkman to do a little "world-building" for Marvel similar to what he's done in Invincible and Walking Dead for Image. Telling the story of an older superhero who lives in his own superhero/supervillain universe in the Marvel "Max" imprint, it revives the Destroyer character originally created by Stan Lee."It may be the best comic I've ever written. I like all of my books equally. I've had as much fun doing them as I have on any other book. But most of the time I get done with a script and I'm like, 'Y-y-yeah, I'll try harder next time.' But when I'm writing this one, I get done writing a script and I think, 'Wow, that is totally neat.' I'm really excited for it. Destroyer has a lot of cool stuff in it. It's a totally cool character. It's a Max book, so I'm crossing boundaries. And I'm doing more crazy stuff in this one than I've ever done," he said.Kirkman said readers who enjoy his work at Image didn't like his Marvel stuff as well will probably like Destroyer Max because Marvel is giving him free rein to create his own universe."It feels like I'm doing an Image book, and that's part of the fun for me. I don't own the character; Stan Lee created the character back in 1940-something. I'm just coming in and basically changing everything. [laughs] But it's completely free rein," he said. "There are different aspects I'm doing, and I'm bringing in all kinds of new characters and doing a lot of new stuff. That's what excites me -- being able to blaze a new trail."

Newsarama Kirkman interview

In Destroyer MAX, a five-issue mini-series starting in September that was just announced at New York Comic Con, Kirkman is creating a whole new universe within the MAX imprint for a revived and re-imagined Golden Age superhero. And the series will reunite Kirkman with Cory Walker, the artist who co-created the Invincible ongoing series with the writer for Image.

The series focuses on Destroyer, a character who is credited as being the first superhero ever created by Stan Lee. The premise for the story puts Destroyer in his 80's now -- an aged yet still-tough-as-nails superhero who just found out he's dying, so he's kicking villain butt and tying up loose ends in ways that are best housed in an adult-level MAX series.

Newsarama talked to Kirkman about how he turned a '40s superhero into a high-action, violent character worthy of the MAX imprint. And as the writer explained what he likes about the series, we found out that this is "by far" Kirkman's favorite thing he's ever done for Marvel.

Newsarama: Robert, this is a pretty unique idea -- taking a Golden Age superhero, aging him and putting him in a MAX series. Where did this idea come from?

Robert Kirkman: After I'd finished on Ant-Man, Aubrey Sitterson, the editor, came up with the idea of possibly bringing the Destroyer character back and having him be old. He had recently read Battle Pope and the Brit paperbacks -- the books that I did at Image -- and he really liked how I wrote old characters. So he said, "Oh, you know what? Let's do an old guy at Marvel." Because old characters are a lot of fun. People don't realize that. So he came up with this Destroyer character and bringing him back and possibly making it a MAX book. He was the one who suggested using Cory. This will be the first thing that Cory Walker and I have done since Invincible, which has lasted more than an issue or two. This will be the first full Robert Kirkman and Cory Walker trade paperback since Invincible Vol. 1.NRAMA: Have you and Cory started on the project?RK: Yeah, yeah. Cory's knee-deep in the issue right now. Cory and I have worked together dozens of times -- it's just been small projects since Invincible, like a couple issues of Marvel Team-Up and Irredeemable Ant-Man. We've got a great working relationship. Cory's one of the few artists I work with who draws pretty much exactly how I'm picturing things while at the same time making them better. So it's a lot of fun to be working with him again.


Newsarama: What is the story about?

Robert Kirkman: It's about Destroyer, which is the first character Stan Lee created, according to Wikipedia. He was kind of a Captain America type character in the '40s. He was posing as a Nazi soldier, then at night, he would go out and run amok behind enemy lines to undermine the Nazi occupation of somewhere. So it was a pretty cool premise for a 1940s comic.We are operating under the assumption that the character was a prominent superhero from the '40s until now. So when we pick up the book, he's in his 80's and has a wife and children and grandchildren. And we're going to be exploring the last years of his life to show the end of his superhero career. In our first issue, he finds out that his heart is about to give out. He's had a number of heart attacks before, and his doctor is warning him that if he doesn't stop doing his superhero stuff, it will kill him. And he can't quit because he's got a bunch of villains out there that he needs to take care of. So the mini-series is about him taking it upon himself to kill all of the villains that are out there who can pose a threat after he is dead.


Newsarama: Thus the "MAX" imprint.

Robert Kirkman: Yeah. It probably has more violence in it than anything I've ever done. The opening sequence of the first issue is just crazy. The first page is him just punching a hole through a guy's head.

Newsarama: What are his powers?

Robert Kirkman: He's super strong and super fast and super cool. He does Captain America stuff, although he's probably a little stronger than Captain America. I'm keeping it vague just in case I want him to do anything cool.

Newsarama: Are you keeping with the stories that were told about him before, or is this kind of a new take on the character?

Robert Kirkman: I'm going on the assumption that he's had an ongoing series since the '40s, so I'm basically writing Issues #701-#705. So it's along the lines of, over time, he's had changes made to his character. And he's had supporting cast members added and taken away. I think if you compare Captain America comics now to Captain America comics of the '40s, there's not a lot that connects with what was going on back then. So I'm kind of doing that with Destroyer. It's the same character that was around in the '40s, but it doesn't really connect because there is a large gap of stories that are only hinted at in the mini-series.
Newsarama: So this isn't a case where we're going to see lots of flashbacks to the old days.

Robert Kirkman: No. All stories like this, they usually do flashbacks, and I'm trying to avoid that kind of stuff. We're only going to see him in modern times.

Newsarama: Since you're getting to kind of recreate his universe separately from the Marvel Universe, is he going to be the only superhero running around? Or are there other superheroes in his universe?

Robert Kirkman: We're not really going to show anybody else, but you know, they could be around.

Newsarama: So it's kind of implied that he lives in a place where there are superheroes?

Robert Kirkman: Yes.

Newsarama: Tell us about Destroyer a person. It sounds like he's a family man, right?

Robert Kirkman: Keene Marlow is his real name. His family is a very important part of the series. Just about every story focuses on different things that have happened to his wife and his daughter. So it's kind of fun because we're doing this ultra-violent, hyper-action series with this character. He wears this mask as a superhero, so you don't really see him as this old guy, but as soon as he gets through punching holes in people's heads and kicking people's jaws off, he goes home to his granddaughter's birthday party and he's this sweet old man who has his granddaughter bouncing on his knee and stuff.

Newsarama: Does his family know that he's the Destroyer? And do the villains know how old he is?

Robert Kirkman: His family knows. And there are a few villains out there that know who he is, which is part of the problems he's had over the years. But for the most part, his identity isn't known. He works for the government. So as far as his neighbors and what-not are concerned, he just works for the government. But every now and then, if a helicopter lands in his back yard, they just assume that something's going on with the military.

Newsarama: Has he always been a hero who kills? Or has he not killed up until this point?

Robert Kirkman: He's not opposed to killing, but if he can take a guy in he'll take a guy in. He's not a murderer, but if he needs to kill someone, he's a pretty violent killer. He was a soldier in World War II, so he's pretty much operating on the same mindset as a soldier would. If he's got to kill, he'll kill. But if he can take prisoners, he will. Not exactly a cold-blooded, murdering son of a bitch, but he's not afraid to get his hands dirty like some other superheroes.

Newsarama: It sounds like it's got to be fun just letting loose like that with a character.

Robert Kirkman: It's my favorite thing I've ever done at Marvel.

Newsarama: Is it really?

Robert Kirkman: Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. By far. I'm really exciting to do it. It's a lot of fun getting to work with Cory. I get to create pretty much an entire continuity. I get to play with it all by myself, so that's pretty cool. The Irredeemable Ant-Man was probably my most well-received book I've done at Marvel. And that pretty close to an Image project as far as freedom and things go.

Newsarama: You mean getting away with murder! There didn't seem to be a limit to what Ant-Man would do.

Robert Kirkman: [laughs] Yeah. Being able to do whatever I wanted to do with the character, and getting my hands dirty and really having fun with it. Destroyer, I think, is the next step past Ant-Man. It's almost exactly like doing an Image book. And that's pretty cool.

CBR Kirkman interview

This September, writer Robert Kirkman and artist Cory Walker reintroduce the character Kevin "Keen" Marlow, AKA The Destroyer to the world in the pages of a five issue "Destroyer MAX" mini-series from Marvel Comics' MAX imprint.

"Destroyer MAX" came about because Editor Aubrey Sitterson wanted to provide Kirkman with the opportunity to cut loose and tell a story with the same amount of graphic violence and mature content featured in Kirkman's creator-owned Image titles like "Brit" and "The Walking Dead." "Aubrey noticed that I hadn't yet been given the chance to do that kind of stuff at Marvel. So they came up with the idea of me doing a MAX book, which I thought was kind of cool, since I love doing crazy stuff in comics," Kirkman told CBR News. "Then Aubrey brought up doing some stuff with the Destroyer, who I was fairly unfamiliar with. He's touted as being Stan Lee's first comic creation, so I thought that aspect Was very cool."

While many comics starring World War II heroes take place during the mid-20th Century conflict, Kirkman is going a different route with "Destroyer MAX." "It's a MAX book so it takes place out of continuity but I'm not scrapping everything that came before," Kirkman said. "I'm coming at this series with the assumption that the book started in the 40's and has been published semi regularly for the last sixty some years. So the issues I'm writing would be like 'Destroyer' #764-768. I'm just assuming all those comics that don't exist actually do and we're picking up from there. There will be a sense of how these characters changed and evolved over time."


Kirkman plans to use the Destroyer's imaginary continuity as a way to engage readers in a mystery that spans the entire mini-series. "When you read the first issue there are six to seven things vaguely hinted at, and had this been a series that had actually been running the entire time you'd know what was going on. So over the course of the mini-series you'll pick up little pieces to help you figure out what's going on and what the characters are talking about," Kirkman remarked. "By the end of the five issues you'll see all the different layers that have gone into this. It's probably the most well thought out project I've ever done. I usually like to fly by the seat of my pants, sometimes too much."
"Destroyer MAX" takes place entirely in modern times and stars Keen Marlow, who was the Destroyer back in the 40's. The series finds Marlow, now in his 80's, in the last days of his life and haunted by past mistakes. "In this series he finds out his heart is about to give out and he's only got a small amount of time left. So he's forced to look back on his life and he realizes he's only got a small amount of time to fix the many things he's done wrong," Kirkman explained. "He's basically trying to correct things and prepare the world for his eventual demise. Because this is a world that's not really heavy in heroes and a lot of his villains are still out there running amok. He's basically going to spend the five issues trying to hunt them down and kill them so they can't cause any trouble after he's dead."


Readers familiar with the Destroyer's history may recognize some of the names but not the faces of the villains that the character confronts in the series. Kirkman plans on keeping some of the monikers of the Destroyer's old villains, but the characters will be completely redesigned with a new continuity.

In "Destroyer MAX," Keen Marlow may be focusing on some of his past mistakes and the villains that got away, but the hero has had the opportunity to live a happy and full life. His job as a government agent and his secret identity has allowed him to raise a family, who will be part of the series' supporting cast. "There's Keen's wife, Harriet and they've got a daughter Felicia," Kirkman said. "And Felicia is married to a man named Darius and they've given the Destroyer a granddaughter."

Marlow's family is very important to him, so "Destroyer MAX" will be an equal mix of family bonding and ultra violence. "It's a MAX book so we're laying it on pretty thick with the violence and gore, because I like that stuff," Kirkman stated. "But at the same time we'll have moments with Keen at his granddaughter's birthday party. So there's a lot of heartwarming family stuff juxtaposed against eyeballs being pushed through people's heads."

Kirkman wants the violence in "Destroyer MAX" to be over the top, but the writer took special care to make sure it wasn't gratuitous. "The very first page in the book is the Destroyer putting his fist through some guys face, so right off the bat there's going to some nasty stuff, but it's all logically done," Kirkman remarked. "We're not going for shock value here."

The chance to cut loose and do some over the top violence was just one of the reasons why Kirkman took the "Destroyer MAX" assignment. The other reason was the project reunited him with friend and "Invincible" co-creator, Cory Walker. "Cory is one of my most favorite artists to work with," Kirkman said. "With Cory, when I get back a page 99% of the time it's exactly the way I wanted it to look. Any time I get to work with Cory I get very excited."

Powers

Marlow possessed various superhuman attributes as a result of ingesting a derivative of the Super-Soldier Serum that was used to create Captain America.

Superhuman Strength: The SSS derivative augmented Marlow's musculature, granting him a slight degree of superhuman strength. At his peak, Marlow possessed sufficient strength to lift approximately 1,000 lbs.

Peak Human Speed: The SSS derivative also increased Marlow's running speed to the peak of human efficiency. Marlow could sprint at speeds of up to 30 miles per hour.

Superhuman Stamina: Marlow's augmented and superior musculature produced less fatigue toxins during physical activity than the musculature of a normal human. At his peak, he could exert himself at peak capacity for up to 3 hours before the build up of fatigue toxins in his blood began to impair him.

Superhuman Durability: Marlow's bodily tissues were augmented by the SSS derivative to the point that they were tougher and more resistant to some kinds of injury than the bodily tissues of an ordinary human. While far from invulnerable, Marlow could withstand powerful impact forces. He could withstand impacts, such as being struck by a superhumanly strong opponent or falling from several stories, that would severely injure or kill a normal human with little to no injury to himself.

Superhuman Agility: The SSS derivative augmented Marlow's natural agility, balance, and bodily coordination to levels that are beyond the natural physical limits of the finest human athlete. Marlow's agility was often likened with that of a tiger.

Superhuman Reflexes: Marlow's reflexes were similarly enhanced and were superior to those of the finest human athlete.

Destroyer history... all 3 of them!?

Kevin "Keen" Marlow was an American journalist who'd gone inside Nazi Germany to investigate the horrors of that regime and report back to his States-side newspaper. Unfortunately, Marlow was a better reporter than investigative journalist (or, to put it less politely, spy), and he was caught snooping by the Germans and thrown into a concentration camp. In the camp Marlow meets fellow prisoner Professor Eric Schmitt, a German scientist who'd refused to cooperate with the Nazis and was imprisoned for his troubles. The dying Schmitt gives Marlow a formula he's created himself: a version of the Super-Soldier Serum which would later empower Captain America. The Serum works on Marlow, giving him the same speed-strength-endurance-prime-of-human-potential which Steve Rogers would later put to such good use as Cap. Schmitt, unfortunately, dies just then.
The newly empowered Marlow breaks out of the camp, avenges Schmitt's death, and goes on a rampage behind enemy lines, working as the costumed Destroyer. He ranged across Europe and even Japan, although mostly he worked in Germany. At times he was aided by the Allied agent Florence von Banger. And when the war ended and the Golden Age drew to a close, the Destroyer disappeared.


Then, during the 1970s, the Destroyer was brought back. The Invaders heard tell of someone operating behind enemy lines, wearing the Destroyer's costume and calling himself "the Mighty Destroyer." On investigation, however, it was revealed that the man underneath the Destroyer's mask was Brian Falsworth, the brother to the heroine and Invaders member Spitfire. Falsworth was moreover the son of James Montgomery Falsworth, who had been active during World War One as the Union Jack (I).
Brian Falsworth had gone through the same experiences as Keen Marlow, having gone into Germany to investigate the horrors of the Nazi's rule and been imprisoned next to Professor Eric Schmitt. Schmitt had given Falsworth a version of the Super-Soldier Serum, this time chronologically after Captain America (I) got his Serum dose. Falsworth, like Keen Marlow, escaped from the camp and waged a guerrilla war on the Germans as the costumed Mighty Destroyer. Falsworth eventually put aside the costume of the Destroyer and became Union Jack (II).

Falsworth's close friend Roger Aubrey, who had been the Dyna-Mite, put on the Destroyer's costume and began calling himself the Mighty Destroyer. For the rest of the war Aubrey served as the Destroyer.

Mystic Comics Destroyer

The Destroyer (Kevin "Keen" Marlow) is a fictional superhero in the Marvel Comics universe, who first appeared in the 1940s during what historians and fans call the Golden Age of comic books. He is significant as being one of the earliest creations of industry legend Stan Lee. As comics historian and former Marvel editor-in-chief Roy Thomas notes: "Stan's most popular superhero creation before the Fantastic Four was the Destroyer, debuting in Mystic Comics #6 (Oct. 1941).

The Destroyer appeared as the cover feature on the last half of the 10-issue anthology Mystic Comics. He went on to star in issues of nearly every Timely superhero anthology, although only one Golden Age story has been reprinted in modern times.


One of the World War II-era heroes of Marvel's Golden Age predecessor, Timely Comics, the Destroyer was less popular than the company's stars, the Human Torch, the Sub-Mariner and Captain America.

Yet the Destroyer's sleek, dark costume with a skull motif, his skin-tight blue mask that made him appear inhuman, and his occasional cover appearances worked to make the character more memorable than many others of his era.